As the Black Lives Matter uprisings continue, we look back at our history and invite Charlotte Hill O’Neil AKA Mama “C” to speak on her triumphs and journey as a former Black Panther. Currently at the United African Alliance Community Center in Tanzania, where Covid19 is not prevalent, Mama C is living her best life: writing her memoir Hard Head and spending time with the community. She shares her insights on the parallels between the Black Panther movement and Black Lives Matter movement today.
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Transcript:
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
I’m always urging young people and elders to live your life to the fullest. I’ve had several of my comrades pass away within the last couple of years, actually. And one of my aunts just passed away the other day. And it’s like the older we get, there’s more and more people who are making that transition. So I’m determined to realize my passion and to pass that passion on to everybody.
And like I said in the film, my paramount thing is to spread peace and love in all communities. And when you’ve been on this planet for as long as I have … And I think I’m one of the elder people in here. Still young at heart. You’re bound to have experiences that you will never ever forget. Some of those things that make you want to just laugh with the memory. And those things that you might just want to keep tucked away to take a peep at through tears every now and again, but living long teaches us that it’s all good. It’s what makes us unique. Makes you you, and me me.
Rhiki:
Welcome to The Radical Zone Podcast, where we get updates on the current state of the world and how various communities are impacted from activists and organizers who are out there doing the work. The Radical Zone Podcast is housed under the Arcus Center for Social Justice Leadership. I know you’re probably wondering what the Arcus Center is. The Arcus Center for Social Justice Leadership, also known as ACSJL is an initiative of Kalamazoo College whose mission is to develop and sustain leaders in human rights and social justice through education and capacity building.
We envision a world where every person’s life is equally valued. The inherent dignity of all people is recognized. The opportunity to develop one’s full potential is available to every person, and systematic discrimination and structural inequities have been eradicated. Listen to and engage in conversation with organizers and activists across the globe about social inequities that impact us all.
All right. Well, to start us off, I want to start off with an opening question. So Mama C, who inspires you to do the work that you do?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Ooh. So many people have inspired me, including my family. I was very close with my family in Kansas City. Mr. Sterling Hill and Ms. Theresa [inaudible 00:02:56] Hill. She’s passed on, but one of the other great inspirations in my life has been what I’ve learned as a member of the Black Panther Party. I joined the party when I was 18 years old in Kansas City. And this is where I met my husband, Brother Pete O’Neal. And he is most definitely the greatest, most consistent inspiration in my life.
When I look at the background that he came from and how he was transformed from being a member of the Black Panther Party and what we have continued to do here, even though he is in exile, we have carried on the work of the Black Panther Party. So I have to say that being a Panther marked me and continues to inspire me.
Rhiki:
Thank you so much for sharing that. Paige, what about you? Who inspires you to do the work that you do?
Paige:
What a good question. Recently, I think it has been my community members, just people that I organize with, mostly APIENC, Asian Pacific Islanders Equality-Northern California. I think they’re going to rebrand soon, which I’m actually excited about because that name is so long to explain, but it’s a group in the Bay Area, queer Asian radicals. And every single time I talk to the elders or I talk to youth, I feel really inspired by the work that we do together. What about you, Rhiki? Who inspires you?
Rhiki:
So I think for me, it would have to be like you, my community members. I come from a very small impoverished town, Albion, Michigan, super small. It was like everybody knows everybody, but we supported each other and worked together to get what we needed to do, get it done. And I carry that with me. It helped me with team building and working in groups. I’m a community person. I need to be surrounded by people, and I need that support, and then I want to give that support.
So coming from that small town has really shaped how I go about organizing and doing work regarding collaboration or whatever you want to call it. But my community has definitely been a big inspiration to me.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Can I add a little bit to what I feel about being so inspired about having been a member of the Black Panther Party? Is that okay?
Rhiki:
Yes.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes. Yes. So when I was a teenager, that’s when I first really started learning about African history, or back then we were calling it black history. And that step led me to becoming a member of the Black Panther Party when I was 18 years old. But the thing that has stuck with me and that has made me so comfortable during my walk in the world is the fact that we were taught that we are members of the global community. And I continue to care that in my heart.
And I am comfortable interacting with people of all races, all ethnic backgrounds, everything, all languages, even though I just speak Kiswahili and English, but that continues to inspire me. The fact that I was almost branded to be a member of a global family. And to me, that gives us so much strength. You always hear people talking about a minority and all that, but when you really think about it, we are not a minority. We are not.
And once you get that in your head and in your mind, and once you have been politically educated about what is happening in the world, it makes you comfortable in your own being. And I love that. And that continues to inspire me. And I try to pass that on to the youth that I work with.
Rhiki:
I really appreciate you sharing that. Thank you.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Karibu. That means welcome. You’re welcome.
Rhiki:
All right. So let’s get into it. Welcome everyone to The Radical Zone Podcast. It’s Rhiki and Paige here. And Paige, how about you tell the people a little bit more about our special guest, Mama C.
Paige:
We have Mama C today, also known as Charlotte Hill O’Neal. She is an internationally known writer, poet, visual artist, musician, healer, filmmaker, and longtime community activist, with more than three decades of experience. She’s the co-founder and program director of the United African Alliance Community Center, which is located outside of Arusha, Tanzania, and a member of the Black Panther Party.
She launched her first book of poetry, Warrior Woman of Peace in 2008. And her second book of poetry, Life Slices, a Taste of Magic in 2016. She is currently working on her memoir titled, Hard Head. Welcome, Ms. Mama C.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Thank you. Thank you. This is my great pleasure to talk to you all young folk. I guess you all are young.
Paige:
I hope so. I’m [inaudible 00:08:56].
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Younger than me. It’s so funny because I am definitely a hip hop head, and I love all kinds of music as long as it’s positive and conscious. And at the concerts, I’m always the oldest one, but it’s all good.
Paige:
Nothing wrong with that.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Nothing wrong with that. I’m very comfortable with young people. Very, very … I think that being around young people and working with young people, and interacting with young people, it always recharges my batteries. And it keeps me young, because I’ll be 70 in March, and that shocks me. I can’t believe it, because I don’t feel like that inside. I don’t know how you’re supposed to feel when you’re almost 70. But I’m not feeling it.
Rhiki:
That’s good. Very good.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes.
Rhiki:
So to start off, I want to ask you, what’s happening where you are with the whole pandemic and everything?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Well, it’s like life is just going on normally. I’m one of the few people who is still masking when I go out, and that’s because my dad lives with us and he’s 93. And my husband, Brother Pete is 80. And them being elders, I have to make sure that we take all kind of precautions, but it never really shut down here. And the president was saying that it was the prayers of people and the good vibes that are going through communities that has kept the pandemic on a low level here. It can’t even be called a pandemic here.
So as I said, life is just going on normal. Now, the border is still not opened up with Kenya yet. And Kenya has reported many, many cases, but Tanzania hasn’t. And people have different theories on that. But the hospitals are not overwhelmed here. The stores are open, the schools are open. And of course, the churches in mosque and then the markets. Everything is going on as usual. So I pray that it will continue like that. And the good thing about being here at the center, the center is on almost four acres of land, so we have plenty of opportunity to be outside.
And I read a theory recently that perhaps that’s why rona isn’t so prevalent in Africa is because culturally we spend most of our time outside. And you go in the house to eat or to go to bed or whatever. So perhaps that’s why. Perhaps that’s why. And I do believe in the power of prayer. So, that might have something to do with it also. So when I read and look at the news and see the horrors that are going on in the States, and our two children are there, and my husband has other children there, my relatives, it’s such a scary, terrible situation, but it’s not like that here. It’s not.
We live in a village. We’re in the countryside, so that’s even better. We’re not stuck in a city somewhere. And I really believe that places where there are large cities and where people are packed together, of course it’s going to spread. Of course, it’s going to be coming out of the woodwork, but it’s not like that here in Arusha, Tanzania. So we’re blessed with that. We’re blessed with peace. We’re blessed with good food. We’re blessed with a good life situation for most people here. So I give thanks for that.
And we have more and more people from the diaspora who are coming to Tanzania, and I would guess in other parts of the country. People are trying to get out of there, you all. Out of America. And it’s all rumors that people are going to have hard time getting passports. And I know people from America aren’t welcome all over the world because of rona, because of the virus. That’s my assessment of the situation here. Life is going on. Everything’s normal.
Paige:
I wanted to ask you. Earlier, you were talking about the Black Panther Party and your experience with it. I was wondering, what’s the process of actually joining the Black Panther? Because I feel like I’ve read about what people do when they were in the Black Panther Party, and talking to elders and stuff like that. But I actually don’t know what the process of joining it was like. Could you talk-
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes. Well, we were required … There was a book list that we were required to read and be conversant in. So it was almost like the test almost. You had to show that you’re very serious. You had to be a person who would present themselves to community in a good manner. We had to learn the 10-point party platform and program. And you had to be able to work. So actually, even when I was a senior in high school, I was skipping school to go over there. I was. And I would do that so that I could participate in not only the rallies that were pretty frequent, because this was in the time where we were trying to free Huey P. Newton who was one of the founders with Bobby Seale of the party.
But also I was attending the political education classes. And that’s something that you had to do. And there were so many people who joined, whose reading level might’ve been real low, but because they wanted to participate in the political education classes, that brought their reading up to a higher level. And you had to understand that party members came from all stratas of life. Some were people from the streets, some were college students, some were even teachers and lawyers and medical people.
So we have a lot to contend with and a lot to learn. And we did it together. The comradery, not only in our chapter, but all over the country. And indeed in other parts of the world that were influenced by the Black Panther Party was something that is amazing, and it continues to this day. If somebody knows that you are a party member, you are welcome right off the bat, because we had so many experiences together, both good and bad. And the thing that was the hallmark of being a Panther was the community service.
And there are still party members who are elders like me and even older who are still doing some kind of community service, the same way we are here. What we do here in Tanzania at the center is a continuation of all the philosophy of community service that we learned and lived as members of Black Panther Party. Once a Panther, always a Panther. That’s something that we all say, and it’s true.
Paige:
I love that.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes. Yes.
Paige:
I didn’t know that there was a required reading. I think that makes so much sense, because whenever you talk to a Black Panther, obviously the political education and the consciousness level is through the roof. What kind of books did you all read?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Well, I know Frantz Fanon, all of his books. One of the things you might be interested is The Little Red Book by Chairman Mao. That was definitely required reading. And I can remember some of it to this day. And one that sticks out in my mind is never still a needle or even a piece of thread from the people. And of course, some of the authors from Africa, people from Cuba. Even Kim Il Sung who was North Korea. The reading was very, very international in its scope.
And the people that were heroes to us were also very international in that case also. And just think, here I was 18 years old and learning all these things that were just new to me. That’s the most beautiful, beautiful thing that a young woman or a young man could experience. And I know that there are cadres of people, old in America who are still trying to teach the youth about history. Not only African history, but history of people fighting for liberation all over the world.
And then when we went to Algeria, that gave me even a more window into international living because where we were in Algeria, which was international section of the Black Panther Party, that was the hub of liberation movements from all over the world. So we met and interacted with people from North Korea, from Vietnam, from South Africa, you name it. Wherever people were fighting for their freedom, many of them ended up there in Algeria.
Rhiki:
So, Mama C, going back to what you said about how things happen through an international lens and even the readings in which you all used to educate yourself were from all over, can you explain this concept of international solidarity? How would you define it, and why do you think it’s important for more black people to adapt this type of lens?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Oh, yes. That is so very important. I had mentioned earlier that when you put yourself in a international vision, international way to live, it empowers you. It empowers you. It lets there are people on the planet who are also fighting for freedom who have very, very similar philosophies, who have had very similar lifestyles. Many people were inspired by the Black Panther Party. And even in India, the Dalit people there, they formed a Black Panther party. People in New Zealand formed a Black Panther party. People in London formed a Black Panther party.
I’ve met some of the comrades from New Zealand at the 50th anniversary of the Black Panther Party. So it just expands your whole focus. It rips off those blinders that so many people, especially in America are wearing, and they don’t even know it. When I go to the States and I look at the news, everything on the news is very, very local. And I think that that is by design. They don’t want people to know about what’s happening in the rest of the world, because if you know what’s happening in the rest of the world, when you relate to other people, you feel a sense of unity, and that strength.
And that’s the thing that many in the government there in America, they don’t want that. They don’t want people to be unified. That has always been their Achilles heel. Am I using that right?
Paige:
Yeah.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Achilles heel. Yes. Yes. Because in unity, there’s strength. That’s very, very simple. It’s not a complex philosophy at all. And it just opens your mind. It expands possibilities. It gives you confidence knowing that you’re not the only one out there. And that’s a good thing.
Paige:
I’m just so in awe of what you’re saying. I’m just thinking about what it means to be in international solidarity. And so much of the work that people do when they leave and come back. And one of my friends is in Thailand right now, and he keeps telling me that I have to go out to Asia at some point and just learn about freedom fighting all over the world. So I’m [crosstalk 00:23:12] right now.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes. Is your heritage Chinese?
Paige:
I’m Vietnamese.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Oh, Vietnamese. Because I went to China for two months. I found it to be very invigorating, because there were very, very few black people or African people in Shanghai when I was there. This was 2015. So when I would walk the street, people would stare at me. And the first couple of days it made me uncomfortable. But after a while, it just empowered me because I realized that I’m a African woman. And because I realized I learned so much from China from Chairman Mao.
And I was a little disappointed that everybody wasn’t walking around in their Chairman Mao suits. People had on miniskirts and was dressing like people do in the States. That was a little disappointing, but I had a beautiful time there. And I was walking down the street one day and this young man passed by me. And to say hello in the Chinese language, you say ni hao. And he said, ni hao yo. Yes. I just loved it.
I said, he has been exposed to hip hop. He has been exposed to some of the language that Africans in the States use. And yes, indeed. I went to a hip hop concert there in Shanghai and Talib Kweli was there, and-
Paige:
What?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Mos Def was supposed to be there, but he had some problem. He was in South Africa and couldn’t come. But those Chinese youth knew all the lyrics to the songs. And hip hop to me is universal, and I love it. You can go to a village, you can go to a city, you can go probably in the Amazon forest, and young people will know something about hip hop. And I just love that. I love the power that’s in hip hop. And that’s another thing that I love about and uplift about hip hop, it’s international. It’s a international language. And it has been able to grow unity all over the world. I’m telling you. That’s the way to go, being a internationalist.
Paige:
I want to switch gears a little bit and ask you some questions about the Black Lives Matter movement that we have right now, if it’s okay.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Sure. Sure. Please.
Paige:
I was wondering, what are some of the parallels between your experience with the Black Panther movement and the Black Lives Matter movement? I think specifically about media. I read a quote the other day that said, the Black Panthers were not interested in mainstream press or general public approval. They had their own newspaper design, art directed, heavily illustrated by Black Panther Party artist and minister of culture, Emory Douglas. It showed images-
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Who was a very dear comrade.
Paige:
So I’m just wondering, with the Black Lives Matter movement, it literally started with a hashtag in social media as a rallying cry. And I’m just wondering your understanding of the different approaches to media in each movement.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Well, one thing that you all have that we didn’t have was this powerful thing called the internet. We were using mimeograph machines, and I bet a lot of your listening audience probably have never even heard of a mimeograph machines, where we would have to-
Paige:
I don’t even know what it is.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
t’s a big old, clunky machine that you had to put ink in, and you had to actually manually turn the handle to put out our leaflets and our memorandums, and all that kind of thing. You all have such a great organizing force in the internet. And yes, there are definitely parallels between the way the media depicted us and the way the media is depicting the Black Lives Matter movement. They depicted us as Panthers as wild and undisciplined and just interested in carrying guns and marching and all that where they didn’t want to report how we were feeding thousands of children all over the country every day.
And many of us were young people, teenagers. Some the oldest were in their thirties, but we were doing this when the government wasn’t doing it. And because we had these breakfast programs and health clinics and all this, I think it embarrassed the American government. And that’s when they first started these programs like Head Start and things like that. But when I look at how the Black Lives Matter movement has grown, and the way it too has become international, then I say, “Wow, these young people really get it. They really get that it’s unity that strengthens us to the point where we can do just about anything and changing things in our community.”
I look at some of the visuals now, and I see all these white kids … Not kids, but white young people and Asian young people, and of course, brown people and black people marching together. And this is the way it was in the ’60s and ’70s. We had something that all of us could rally around, of course trying to get the real practice of human rights and civil rights for black and brown people. But we also had the Vietnam War that drew in so many people from all communities, and that was a rallying cry to build unity.
So the press is going to always vilify people who are trying to come together to rebuild, to reconstruct, to really change things. And I love this thing about defunding the police and making sure … I can’t remember which point it was, and I used to have it all memorized. But it was that we needed to have police from our own community who are helping to keep order, for lack of a better word, in the community. And that’s something I experienced as a child in Kansas City. You didn’t have all these instances of police brutality. You didn’t have it like that because the police were from our community.
They went to school with our parents, they partied with our parents, they went to church or the mosque with our parents. And the same thing with the teachers. The teachers came from our community. They knew the culture. They knew people in the community, and they pushed us to excel. But when you have people coming from outside the community who knows nothing, but maybe the negative things they have heard in the news media, they come to look at it as us against them. It’s almost like wars. It’s like a occupying force, and that is something that has been such a detriment to black and brown communities in particular.
Paige:
I think there is definitely such a historical relationship between the Breakfast Program and the Black Panther. I think you can definitely still see that today. Like in Oakland, they do the Breakfast Program still. And I think the remanence of the Black Panther Party are still definitely here with us all the time. And I know for me, reading about the Black Panther was part of my radicalization. And I know part of Trevor’s too.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Oh yes. I want to mention that, as you said, some of these programs are still going on. I was in Seattle. That was one of my last stops right before I came back home here in Tanzania. And the comrades there took me to a hospital, or maybe it was large, large clinic. I don’t know how you designate the differences, but this was the regional clinic that was established by Panthers back in, I think ’68 or something like that. It’s still going on.
And like I said, also in the beginning of our conversation, once a Panther, always a Panther. So even some of the elders are now focusing on the many political prisoners who have been locked down for decades, and they are still feeding the community. There’s a comrade in San Diego, and I saw some of the work that they were doing there. They’re still mentoring people. And I have to emphasize sisters, that we’re doing the same work here in Africa. And one of the things that is of paramount importance among Black Panthers is that we continue to set a positive example. We continue to mentor young people.
Paige:
Right on.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes, yes. So, that’s something that will never change. If I reach to be a ripe age of a hundred, I dare say, I’ll still be doing some kind of community work.
Paige:
Not [inaudible 00:34:22].
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
That’s right. Yes. And did you know that phrase, right on, comes from the Panthers?
Paige:
Oh my goodness.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
A lot of people don’t know. Yes. Yes. It’s widely used now, but that’s where it comes from. Right on.
Rhiki:
I did not know that.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
It was really a special time in history. My husband says it was like some enlightenment of the planets that was sending down some kind of energy field that affected so many people. And I think the same thing is happening now. This is the age of enlightenment. It’s happening you all, and I’m just so happy that we have been blessed to live to see this, the new age of enlightenment.
Rhiki:
I do have a question. So considering your extensive experience with organizing, I want to get your thoughts on structures of movement. So what is your thoughts on decentralized movements versus movements that have centralized leaders? And then if you could just share which one you feel fits best for the times now?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Well, I think both of them fit best. I think that there’s more than one way to skin a cat. I wonder where that phrase came from. I’m going to have to look that up on the internet, but I think there’s a place for all of it. There’s a place for small cadres of comrades to do something. And then there’s a place for these thousands of people marching together. There’s not only one way. You can have leaders, but the thing about having leaders is the powers that be, and I don’t like to use that phrase, but we know of them talking about.
It’s easy for them to target leaders who are out there on the front line, so you got to have backup. You got to have people who you wouldn’t even dream are a part of the movement. Clandestine operatives. So I can’t say that one is better than the other. We need them both. We really, really do.
Paige:
Well, I think one thing about the different structures in leadership is when we talk about the ’60s, I feel like there’s a discussion now about how one of the difficulties with the movements in the ’60s is that the leaders were so … You could point to them; Malcolm, Martin. And with our movements now, I’ve heard other elders talk about, “Because it’s so decentralized, it’s harder to pinpoint a specific …” There are obviously leaders, but it’s … How do you call it? The movement doesn’t die because one of the leaders has died. What do you think about things like that?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
I think that that’s very correct. And that’s why I say you got people who are out there on front street, but you’ve got also people who are more silent in their activities. And that’s why it’s so important to have small groups also. What we call cadres, who can go out into the community and who can influence people, who can teach people, who can lead people, but on a smaller scale. Everybody’s not going to be out there on the front lines, and that’s not even desirable that the leaders are targeted like that.
So you need some people out there who can fire people up with their enthusiasm, with their ideals and all that. But you also need people who are more, what we call, underground. So I think both are … I’m sorry.
Paige:
Would you say that you’re more of the underground person or the person at the rally who fires people up? What was that like for you. Mama C?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Do you mean when I was a active Panther?
Paige:
Yeah.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Is that what you mean?
Paige:
Yeah. When you were an active Panther or now.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Well, right now I think that I can fire people up through my example. Through my positive example. When people see the work that we do here, it inspires them to do work also. It inspires them to do what they can to uplift their community. It inspires them when they see the spirit of volunteerism, which was also one of the hallmarks of what being a Panther is about.
My thing, when I go on tour, I try to present the most positive, uplifting messages that I can to whoever I speak to. Because with all of these terrible things that are happening there, the police brutality, the pandemic, all these things that’s happening, we got … And I always tell people this, you can’t let them take your joy, because joy is one of the things that also fuels our batteries. So even in the midst of all this terrible thing that’s going on, you’ve got to have some way to experience joy.
I think that’s one of the important things that I bring to communities wherever I go, joy and blessings. Everybody’s not going to be able to pick up a gun, or to throw a Molotov cocktail, or even to protest. True. There’s something that everybody can do. And one of the things that I think is my calling as a healer, as a spiritual person, a spiritual being is to make sure that that joy keeps flowing.
Rhiki:
I do have a question. So since you got into the party at such a young age, at 18, how did you go about finding and developing your voice? Being that I’m also young and trying to get off into this organizing world. How did you develop your voice?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Well, I’ve always had a very strong sense of self, and I’ve always been a very confident person, even though I wasn’t … I used to be soft-spoken. My husband says I was shy, but because I had this confidence, because I had learned so much as a member of the party, because I had so many examples around me, it was easy for me to find my own voice. And I can even equate that to the present when I have my own voice in my music and in my poetry, whatever I do. To me it’s, I don’t like to be a copycat or anything like that.
So, that’s of paramount importance to me. Whatever I do, I’m going to do something that people know that’s coming from Mama C, and she’s not copying anybody else. We all have our own voice. But the thing is, you got to have confidence. You got to grow confidence to be able to express that voice in whatever your creativity is, in whatever your talent is. And I think everybody will eventually find their voice. That’s why it’s so important that we mentor young people.
I like to give the example of working with some of the youth here in the village who might have never experienced what they experience here at our center, at UAACC. And they’re all shy and withdrawn. But as soon as you put a microphone in their hand, as soon as you let them know that, “Hey, your words are powerful. Your words mean something. Your words are important,” they just change. They walk change, they start walking with confidence. They start speaking with confidence. So it’s so important that we have people who can continue to uplift our young people. And as elders, that is one of our most important jobs, to guide, to uplift. And through that upliftment, we empower people. That’s something we’re supposed to do, especially as elders.
Rhiki:
So speaking of your center, the United African Alliance Community Center, can you tell us a little bit more about what the center does and the purpose behind the creation of a space like that in Africa?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes. Yes. Well, Brother Pete has been an exile since we left, and he continues to be in exile. And he can’t go back to the States, because if he did, he would immediately go to prison. And we’ve always carried that favor and fire of being a Panther. So to give you just a little quick background, when we first came here in 1972, we became homesteaders. We became farmers. We had to learn all that. We had to learn appropriate technology that allowed him to build windmills when we didn’t have any electricity. That allowed us to learn how to actually build our home with a CINVA-ram machine and using termite mound material.
And the elders in the community saw all this hard work that we were doing, and they actually gave us a plot of land. And that’s where we built the first center there in Maji Ya Chai. And we arched, and it had a stage, it had classrooms. And teachers from some of the primary schools would bring their youth there. And we’d have all kinds of programs. And then we saw it was more convenient and would be more effective if we built classrooms here at what was our homestead. When we did that, and the first class was teaching young people about computers. We didn’t have any internet.
And this was those big, giant computers and the monitors with little tiny screens. You all probably have never even seen anything like that. And then the elders in the community, they said, “Will you all teach English.” And so we started teaching English. And when I say we, all of our teachers have always been volunteers, many of them from Tanzania. And then we started teaching all kinds of arts, design and making this and music. And then we got the studio, and it just grew and it grew organically.
And then people started expressing that there were children who didn’t have parents. And this was when AIDS was really bad here in the community. Many of them had lost parents and were being raised by grandparents. And that’s when Brother Pete founded the Leaders of Tomorrow Children’s Home. And we’ve been raising 28 children for the last 11, almost 12 years, I guess. And the classes have become very, very well known. Now we had to close down when the corona came, but we’re slowly opening back up.
And we built a new studio, and these youth are champing at the bit. But I think that I can truthfully say that the reason the center became what it is today, an internationally known place of peace and learning is because of our experiences as Panthers. We’re just carrying on the community service that we always have done. And our motto here at UAACC is sharing knowledge for community development. Still doing it. Can’t stop, won’t stop. One of our comrades, Brother Cello Whale used to say, he said, “We’re going to bop till we drop.” And we are. That’s right.
Rhiki:
So Mama C, you have this community center, you’re a writer, you’re a poet. You do a little bit of everything. How do you balance it all? And what are some tools or coping strategies you utilize to help keep you mentally stable during this time?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Ooh. I think I’m a very calm person, usually. I’m blessed like that. I’m also a Pisces, so I’m a dreamer, and I have a very artistic way of looking at the world. And also initiated to Oshun, who if you all know anything about Orisha culture is also someone who can pour honey on the enemies and turn them around. But also, I eat well. I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 26 years old and here I’m going on 70. And recently I embraced an alkaline lifestyle, which keeps me very, very energized.
I don’t even drink coffee anymore. Yes, yes. And being in a loving atmosphere. I think that … I know. Not, I think. I give out a lot of love. And when you do that, it comes back to you like a boomerang. And the fact that me and my husband have been a unified force for 51 years, that keeps me grounded also, but being an artist, that is one of the greatest blessings in my life. And I know that it’s in my DNA because so many of my relatives are also artists. And I got a divination reading that revealed to me that my ancestors from way back were also artists, and community workers, and diviners, and healers and all of that. So it’s in my blood. I don’t think I could be anything other than who I am.
Paige:
Mama C, I know you were talking about being an internationalist and the importance of people learning about global politics and freedom fighting. And I’ve also heard this from folks who have gone to Africa and studied abroad there, who are black Americans. I’m wondering, why do you think it’s important for black people to visit, specifically black Americans to visit and connect with the continent, and the concept of back to the source?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
And that’s what it is, that back to the source. It energizes you. It energizes you, it gives you confidence. When you know who you are, when you know that you have brothers and sisters and cousins and grandparents here on the continent, whether you know them or not, when you know your ancestry is so strong and that people here still embrace you, that empowers you. I think it’s very, very important for especially young Africans who are in the States to come to Africa to experience a different way of life. To know that the lives that they live where they’re so oppressed and down-pressed by the police, by the government, by the food deserts.
All of that, if they can see that, it turns their whole mindset around. And we have experienced that. We used to have exchange programs with youth, especially in Kansas City. And these are some youth who had never even been out of their own communities. And they came here and they were able to be immersed in the community here for even a short time, like a month or something like that. And able to meet young people their age, who might not have had much financially, but they were living their dreams.
And when they see that and when they saw that, it turned them around. It lets people know that they can dream, and that they can make their dreams a reality. It’s very, very important for, especially Africans who live in America to understand more about their true history and their true selves. And not that everybody was a King and queen here, because that just not true. But knowing that there’s a value in being a farmer. There’s value in being an artist. There’s value in being a servant of the community. So they better come home.
Rhiki:
I really appreciate you saying that, because me and my friend, Denette was actually talking about this the other day, about how, for some reason, black people here feel the need to call themselves kings and queens. And I think it’s really just to let people know that they are important. But I appreciate you saying you don’t have to be a king and a queen. And the reality is everybody wasn’t a king and a queen. And that still doesn’t take away your importance.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
That’s right.
Rhiki:
You can just be who you are, and you’re important. You can still be recognized by others. So I appreciate-
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes, yes. That’s so true. And I think that so many people have lost the sense of the value of working on the land. It’s like people are ashamed to do that, or the value in knowing how to be a plumber, or knowing how to be electrician, or a tailor, and things like these. These are practical things that could turn someone’s life around if they could learn them. And there are so many elders out there who have this knowledge, who have the skills. The youth just got to get with them, ask them.
There’s probably elders, they’re sitting in their living room saying, “Man, I got all this knowledge. I wish somebody would come and ask me to teach them.” People have to understand the value of being able to work with your hands or being a creative being. Shoot.
Rhiki:
So Mama C, we really enjoyed this conversation with you so much so that we don’t want it to end, but I want to be mindful of your time. So I’m going to just ask you one more question before we close out. So is there any projects or music or publications that you’re working on that you want us to uplift and use this platform to uplift in the moment?
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Oh yes. It’s really something. With me not traveling now as extensively as I used to, I’m able to do all kind of … This Zoom and podcasts, I love. One of the latest projects is with Collective in South Africa that I just completed with Emma Maasai, which is a brother who was … He was a student here, and he developed the confidence to become a filmmaker and a musician.
I just did a big thing with University of Milwaukee. And different collaborations with musicians. That’s why I love the internet, you all, because we can exchange them MP3s and MP4s, and all of that. So I’m going to send you some links. And if anybody among your listening community would like to do some collaboration with me or some of the artists here, hey, bring it on.
Paige:
I would love to. I write poetry too, so I would love to get together. Yeah, let’s do it.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
That would be beautiful. Let’s do it.
Paige:
Oh, Rhiki writes poetry too.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Oh, hey.
Paige:
So does Trevor.
Rhiki:
I’m a new poet.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Hey. Well, we got a cadre going already. I’ve enjoyed this conversation with you all, and I’m very proud of the youth who are taking the reigns of the movement, not only in America, but worldwide. And dealing with the environment, and dealing with the injustices, and dealing with the political prisoners that are still locked down. And I say big-ups to all of you all, and keep on pushing.
Paige:
Thank you, Mama C.
Rhiki:
Thank you.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Yes. Yes.
Paige:
Good afternoon. There it’s morning. Thank you so much for your light and your beauty. Thank you. Thank you.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Oh, I give thanks to you all, and I send you all many blessings and love from here, Tanzania.
Paige:
Okay. I’m going to end on this quote, “There is no such thing as a single-issue struggle because we do not live single-issue lives,” Audre Lorde.
Charlotte Hill O’Neal:
Ooh, I love that.
Paige:
So thank you again, Mama C for joining us today at The Radical Zone. You can check out more of Mama C’s work …
Rhiki:
Thank you for tuning in. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on social media. You can find us on Facebook, @ACSJLKzoo. Twitter, @ACSJL. And Instagram, @arcuscenter. For questions, comments, and ideas for future topics, please view responses on our social media platforms.