The transgender movement has come a long way in the last six decades, from very little visibility and support to growing awareness and acceptance. We speak with Willy Wilkinson, author of the Lambda Literary Award-winning book Born on the Edge of Race and Gender: A Voice for Cultural Competency, about his journey coming out as a young trans child in the early sixties. Now a sought-after public health consultant who helps organizations and institutions develop LGBTQ-affirming services and systems, Willy describes his work in the LGBTQ movement, the challenges he and other transmasculine people of color face, and the trans superpower he discovered as a father of three.
Resources:
Born of the Edge of Race and Gender: A Voice for Cultural Competency
Transcript:
Paige:
Turn of the head, I am ma’am, and back of the head, I am sir. And top down, I am what are you, and face on, I am no, where do you really come from? Shape shift eyes, no connection. Shape shift nose, misconception. Shape shift size, not deception. Shape shift, shifting perception. Flash of the voice, I am ma’am, and style of the threads, I am sir. And texture of skin, I am what’s your mix. And flash of the eyes, I am there’s something going on there. Shape shift, no attention, give them presentation, shift all those opinions. Shape your own damn dominion. Stories unseen, no connection, trans folks, misconception, mixed folks, no deception, gender fabulous, no correction, disability, shifting perception. Turn of the head, I am sir, and back of the head, I am ma’am. And top down, I am invisible, and face on, I am…
Rhiki:
Welcome to the Radical Zone Podcast, where we get updates on the current state of the world, and how various communities are impacted from activism organizers who are out there doing the work. The Radical Zone Podcast is housed under the Arcus Center for Social Justice Leadership. I know you are probably wondering what the Arcus Center is. The Arcus Center for Social Justice Leadership, also known as ACSJL, is an initiative of Kalamazoo College, whose mission is to develop and sustain leaders in human rights and social justice through education and capacity building. We envision a world where every person’s life is equally valued, the inherent dignity of all people is recognized, the opportunity to develop one’s full potential is available to every person, and systematic discrimination and structural inequities have been eradicated. Listen to and engage in conversation with organizers and activists across the globe about social inequities that impact us all.
Paige:
Hey, Willy, thank you so much for coming to the Radical Zone. I remember being so excited to be paired with you for the APIENC phone tree, because I found out you’re also a writer. It’s been really great to connect with you ever since.
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah, great to connect with you. APIENC stands for Asian Pacific Islander Equality – Northern California. It’s a great organization, and doing such great work uplifting Asian Pacific Islander LGBTQ communities with a focus on trans and nonbinary gender expansive folks too. So, such a great, great community organization.
Paige:
Yes, I agree, love APIENC. I wanted to ask you what’s been on your mind this week.
Willy Wilkinson:
What’s on my mind this week? Well, we are burning up in California, so we have not been able to breathe in the Bay Area for a… Or at least, I’m in Oakland, and yesterday we had a moment of some, well, decent air quality, a little bit above normal. So, I got to get my kids out and play outside, which was nice, because they’ve been stuck for the most part in the house for a week. Though, I did get them out to Half Moon Bay on Saturday, on the coast, where we had better air quality. That, and I don’t want to watch two minutes of the Republican National Convention because it is full of crazy ass lies. Can I say that? But last week, I did enjoy seeing Kamala Harris and others at the Democratic National Convention. So, that’s what’s on my mind.
Paige:
Oh my goodness. Yeah, I hope you and your family are safe. I’ve been checking in with people in the Bay Area. Yeah.
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah, it’s really hard to breathe. If you go to purpleair.com, they update the air quality every 10 minutes, and it’s always changing. We do get some winds in the late afternoon and that helps sometimes. It’s transitory though sometimes when we have air quality that’s almost normal, and then it’ll go… Green is good, yellow is moderate, and then it goes to orange and red. It’s been in the red zone for most of this week, where very unhealthy for all people. Yeah, it’s been challenging because we got… It’s like one more thing, right? I was like, if COVID isn’t enough, right? Yeah, so a mask for the smoke and a mask for COVID, it’s intense.
Rhiki:
What about you, Paige? What has been on your mind this week?
Paige:
This week, I’ve been good, I’ve been chilling. I’ve just been reading a lot of comics. I’ve been trying to find more gay comics or more gay material to read. I feel like I just didn’t really grow up reading a lot of that stuff. So, it’s been really nice actually, to read gay media. Oh, I’ve been reading Willy’s book a little bit too. I’m like 40 pages in, Willy.
Willy Wilkinson:
40 pages in, all right. Yeah, well, thanks for doing that.
Paige:
What about you Rhiki, what’s going on?
Rhiki:
Honestly, last week was a blur, so this week, I’m just trying to get my mind back on track. I don’t know. It’s like COVID, it just seems like everything that could possibly happen is happening right now, and it’s a lot of process. So this week, I really just been trying to be intentional about books that I’m trying to read. I think in the past, I read a lot of psychological statistical text, and now I’m trying to actually explore what reading for fun looks like. So, trying to get into some poetry books and things like that. So, Paige, I know you’re a poet, so if you have any recommendations, let me know.
Paige:
Yes. Yes, we’ll talk about that.
Rhiki:
Okay. So, let’s get into it. Welcome to the Radical Zone, everyone. Today, we will talk about transmasculinity and Asian Pacific Islander transness specifically. But first, Paige, can you tell the people a little bit more about Willy.
Paige:
So, Willy Wilkinson is an award winning Asian American transgender writer and public health consultant. He is the author of Lambda Literary Award-wining book, Born on the Edge of Race and Gender: A Voice for Cultural Competency, which illuminates trans experience from a Chinese-American and mixed heritage perspective, and transforms a memoir genre into a cultural competency tool. Willy was a key organizer of the API lesbian movement, and organized the first peer support programs for API transmasculine individuals and transmasculine people of color. He is also a father of three.
Willy, one of the stories you told me, which I love so much, was the one about your child calling you a transformer. I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit today. I know you also wrote it in your book. Also, can we just talk about the cover. The cover is so like, wow.
Rhiki:
Right? I saw the cover and I saw the open shirt and I was just like, “Oh, what is this book about?”
Willy Wilkinson:
What did you think it was about based on the cover?
Rhiki:
It looked like it was going to be a sexy romance novel, and then I saw the title and I was just like, “This is interesting.”
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting how many people have… I mean, the reactions that people have to the cover, and that people think they know what’s in the book based on the cover, and that some people love it, and some people are offended by it. In fact, I did a training recently in a real conservative county in California, and I did get one evaluation, the first time I’ve ever gotten an evaluation like this, that the person thought that my cover was offensive, and that I look like I’m trying to be a porn star and that’s very tacky. So, I thought, okay that’s interesting. Then, I wondered, well then I thought about, well, I did a training once, because I do a lot of trainings for LGBTQ issues, with a focus on trans issues over the last three decades with various community health providers, broadly defined, and education institutions, businesses and others.
So, I was working with one group that served families with young children, and caregivers that provide services for them and so forth. And they said, we can’t have the nakedness. I thought, oh, is there something in my presentation that has nakedness. Was there [inaudible 00:09:05] that I missed that I didn’t realize had some nakedness? Then, I realized, oh you’re talking about my cover. Then, they realized that they have pictures of shirtless men holding newborn babies, that’s a good bonding thing when newborns are born. Skin to skin is really, really important. So, they had pictures of shirtless men, and then they realized, oh, because I was trans, they thought it was naked. So, I think it’s interesting how people respond to it, and then I wondered it that person who thought it was tacky would have responded the same way if I wasn’t trans.
But honestly, I’m just trying to be a badass trans person. I’m just trying to show people that you can be the thing that has been denied me. As an Asian person, as a transmasculine person, my masculinity has been denied me, so I’m saying, “Hey, this is who I am, be yourself.” That’s what it’s all about. I’m not trying to act like I’m so hot, right, it’s just kind of fun for me. I did it with queer amusement, but I think people don’t necessarily understand that. I’ve been judged all my life by my cover, but never so much until I became a book, so that’s been interesting.
Paige:
Right on, right on.
Willy Wilkinson:
But I mean, to me, it’s just fun. I don’t even see it anymore, because it’s my book, I don’t see it. So, it’s funny how people have these different responses. I mean, I’m just saying, “Hey, this is me, what about it?” That’s really what it’s about.
Paige:
Right on. Yeah, I think when I saw the cover, it was after we had called a couple times and we had just met, so I was like, “Oh okay. Okay, Willy. With the leather jacket, the smirk, it’s a good look.”
Willy Wilkinson:
Well, thank you for that. So, I’m sorry, you has a question. Oh yes, okay, so the interesting thing was, okay, so I have three kids who are now in elementary, middle, and high school. And my oldest, when he was four, after we had gone through a walk in the woods and we played, goofed around in the woods, he had these questions for me. I mean, he was very inquisitive as children can be about a lot of things in nature, the redwoods, the moon. Then, he asked me, “Dada, are you a man?” And at that time, I had not medically transitioned. People would sometimes assume I was his mama, and I was wondering how that cp was for him. We’d had experiences where there was a neighbor, there was a little girl who was his age and the mom was cool, said, “Drop by any time,” and one time we dropped by to play, and her mother, the child’s grandmother just had an absolute look of horror at my presence, and said, “No, she’s not available,” even though the child was right there.
So, I just wondered what those experiences were like. So, he asked me, “Dada, are you a man?” So, I thought okay, great, now we’re going to have this conversation, a continuation of the pride conversation we’d had about six months earlier about men who love men, women who love women, boys who really feel that they’re girls, girls who really feel like they’re boys. So, I talked about my experience that I’d always felt like a boy, but people didn’t necessary see me that way. Then, I said, “I’m transgender. Can you say that?” And he enunciated it well, and he thought about it, and he said, “You’re a transformer, but not only that you’re a person who transforms.” This is someone who he loved legos, he loved building things. We would find things around the house that he had built out of objects around the house, and dangling from a dresser, and hanging, and all these kinds of things.
It was just something he really understood as someone who loved to manipulate objects and transform them, and he really got it. It was magical in a way, because I’d begin to realize after a lifetime of being shamed that I actually have a super power. So, that was a positive experience through a child’s eyes. Because I think children, they really get this stuff on a visceral level, and it’s interesting how they’re so free with gender before they get indoctrinated. Like, my little boys always loved pink when they were three, but by the time they were four, they had gotten the message that they shouldn’t love pink anymore. It’s in the air, it’s in preschool, it’s in the content that they’re watching, or whatever. So, I think it was a cool way of viewing my experience that I had not had before that, so it really was a gift.
Paige:
That’s like one of my favorite stories.
Willy Wilkinson:
Oh, thank you.
Paige:
You said that you hadn’t medically transitioned at the time, but I’m wondering, had you just identified as a man at that time or were you announcing that using he/him pronouns?
Willy Wilkinson:
Well, as an old ass trans person, I was born in the early 60s before there was any conversation, visibility, community, resources, positive imagery of trans people. And so, I announced when I was four years old that I wanted to be white and male. I asked my dad, “Who are all these people on the money? Are they all white men?” So, I realized that was the way to go, that was the way to get power. But, I also really knew for the time I was preverbal that I really did not identify with the dolls and dresses that were being put upon me. So, I was throwing them back at whoever was giving them to me. But, when I was nine, I changed my name to Willy. That was a long, long process of really getting people to recognize my name change, my family, my school, my community. There was a lot of resistance, a lot of taunting around that. It took my mother 15 years to get with my name change.
When I came out as a lesbian in the early 80s, there was no visibility or much awareness around trans experience. Though I have grief around not being supported as a trans child, I do no regret that I had the opportunity to come out into a lesbian of color community in the 80s and start organizing Asian lesbians in the early 80s. It was a very, very powerful experience. I mean, in order to do that, of I had to be female, so I had to… Even though, I really had seen myself as male all my childhood, without really being able to put it into words. I just changed my name and I just was who I was, and I think people understood me in a visceral way, but there was no language, there was no articulation, there was no support, there was no other trans person I knew of or had met, no out trans person I had met until I think I was about 29. No, maybe a little bit earlier than that.
I started working on the streets of the Tenderloin during the early years of the HIV/AIDS epidemic, so I did meet some folks like mid-20s. But, I had not met an out transmasculine person until I was about 29. So, it was a long journey for me I think. When the 90s hit, I was really excited that there was much more visibility around trans issues and mixed heritage issues, which I really felt my mixed heritage was inexplicably linked to my gender. I’d begin to identify as a third gender person in the 90s. Then 1995, when San Francisco got discrimination protections based on gender identity, then the community started to get really organized, and I got involved in the trans movement. But, what we call the FTM community at the time, female to male, there was expectation that if you were part of the community, you were on some journey between A to wherever. You were on the way from female to maleness.
So, if you came to the meeting, you must have been interested in top surgery. So, I was actually just wanting community and resonance with people who I felt had a sense of what my experience was about. It’s why we find community. It wasn’t because I was at that time wanting to medically transition. So, for many years, I had one foot in the lesbian community and one foot in the trans community. But, it was something that was gnawing at me for a very, very long time. I would talk myself out of it. So, five decades of this, and finally at age 49, I was like, “Oh no, I am not going to 50 in this body,” and I did finally access medical transition, no regrets. At that time, so much had happened with the trans movement, and I had been out as trans for so long that a lot of people where just like, yawn, okay, great.
No, but I mean, also what was really interesting was that people congratulated me, and I did not see that coming. I mean, I was in a relationship with a lesbian identified person, who was really not at all excited about me medically transitioning. So at the time, it was not celebrated, it was a burden. But, other people in my communities were saying, “Thank you for your courageousness,” and all these things that were like, what? I didn’t know people congratulated people on medical transitions. So, that was really, really positive.
Rhiki:
Willy, I love that you brought up how you started off your organizing career in lesbian spaces. Can you talk a little bit more about what it was like to, like how you said you had one foot in the lesbian community and another foot in the trans community? Can you talk about how your experience was being a part of those lesbian spaces but identifying as a trans male? And some of the, I don’t want to necessarily say pushback, but some of the pushback that you might have gotten from that, but then some moments of enlightenment that you were able to give to that community.
Willy Wilkinson:
Again, I did not identify as trans male at that time, I identified as third gender. I identified transgender, I identified as trans butch, and I was very much involved in a interracial butch/femme community. I think it’s an interesting evolution that happened in the lesbian community, which maybe now we would call queer women’s community. But at the time, the identity for folks in a lesbian community was, well, one, you had to be female to be a lesbian. It was about taking back power, it was about confronting the sexism, misogyny, and racism that folks were experiencing. So, while masculinity in female form was celebrated, it certainly was not otherwise. I think when I look back on it, there were certainly people I knew that I felt like, oh I see you. Just the other day, a friend of mine celebrated his 60th birthday, and we met at that first API lesbian retreat that I co-organized in 1987.
I remember saying, “I see you my brother,” at this lesbian retreat. But of course, we did not have that language, we did not have that sense of… There was just that, oh… there was an unspoken kinship. It was in the mid-90s, 1995 that we began organizing API folks on the transmasculine spectrum, so people identified as butch and FTM at that time. Most of us had not medically transitioned. It was a small groups of folks we had, [inaudible 00:22:09] this, and we really just connected around support. I mean, I think there was a lot of resistance. We did educational work with the lesbian community, especially the API lesbian community in the late 90s. In the broader community, there were what they call the butch FTM wars, there was just a lot of animosity, which continues to this day, and a lot of… I mean, I think about lesbians of my generation or a little older, there’s certainly a deep transphobic thread among some of the folks in that generation that is harmful.
It’s been a process I think of people opening their minds to different possibilities, but at that time, people were not… In the 80s and even in the 90s, I think people were not really understanding that someone might have a different gender identity from the sex assigned at birth, and that that was okay, and that you were still part of the broader LGBTQ, or that what became a sense of queer as a broadening concept, it took a while for folks to really get that that could include folks with varying gender identities. It was so very much, the lesbian, gay community, or gay and lesbian, white, gay men getting a lot of visibility and lesbians getting much less visibility, and that being very much the idea of what this broader community represented. So yeah, I would say it’s been a long process. Of course now, wow, and when you talk about an organization like API Equality – Northern California, APIENC, I mean, there is an example of an organization that is really getting the breadth of identity and experience intergenerationally across our community and the different ways that folks identify. That’s a beautiful thing.
Whereas I was considered weird and one of only three people in the FTM community who identified in a way that wasn’t binary or who wasn’t pursuing medical transition in the 90s… There wasn’t really a community, there wasn’t really a sense of what that meant to identify in a complex way around gender. And now, wow, you can legally designate your gender as nonbinary in several states, and there’s a burgeoning community. And as many ways to identify, there are people who identify these ways. That’s a beautiful thing. I love that, I love the nonbinary movement. Even though my identity has shifted, and I do identify as a trans man now. But, prior to medical transition, it was a more complex identity. I mean, which is not to say that my experience is not complex, I’ve lived over time in these different experiences around my gender. So for me, identifying as a trans man means that I lived in a female body for five decades, so that certainly influences who I am as a trans man.
Rhiki:
You said that your medical transition was fairly recent, and me and Paige were kind of talking about this the other day, so I’m just really curious, when you finally were medically transitioning, what was it like to realize, wow, I’m a male now, as far as the things that comes with maleness?
Willy Wilkinson:
Well-
Rhiki:
So, I’m more so referring to how people view you from the outside as a male and the privileges they assume that you have from looking the way you do now.
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah, I mean, I think for me, I was very strongly identified as a woman color, as a mixed woman of color. I think male privilege is phenomenal. Whereas if I were going to a store or something, it’s not problem if I have to wait some long period of time, but now with light skin privilege and with male privilege, I feel like I experience so much more privilege, where people are saying, “Oh, oh, I’ll be with you in a minute, sir.” Those kinds of moments, where I feel like the privilege is phenomenal in terms of how I experience the world. I think it’s an evolution of really coming into that experience because inside I’m still this quiet Asian girl that’s being afraid to speak out sometime. The experience in a world is that for me, as someone who does training with all types of folks with various knowledge levels around LGBTQ communities, I feel like that I got smarter and my money got greener.
Somehow, what I have to say has more importance now. Even though I might struggle with the trappings of culture, where I might be afraid to assert myself or express my needs sometimes internally, externally to have the experience of being read… To have the experience of being assumed to have had male privilege all my life and the privilege that comes with that is really huge. It’s a process of recognizing that privilege and also battling the internal struggles that I have. I think that that is not just unique to me for transmasculine folks. We’ve lived as female, we’ve been subjugated our whole life, since the womb or whatever, and as female born individuals, as trans individual or gender expansive folks, and then to have that experience where you’re afforded these privileges, it’s pretty phenomenal, and that comes with responsibility absolutely.
Paige:
Yeah, I think listening to you talk about the different eras of what it meant to be trans is really interesting, because I feel like I still… Even reading and talking to people, I still really don’t understand what it was like before this time period. To me, it’s so normal that people are trans. Hearing you say that you hadn’t met another transmasculine person until you were 29 is like, wow, like, wow. 29 is late to-
Willy Wilkinson:
Right?
Paige:
[inaudible 00:29:42]. I can’t even imagine, yeah.
Willy Wilkinson:
Well, I mean, out transmasculine… although, I would say that I have known people who I felt like, oh, I see them, I get them. But, there were some people who were butch identified, but weren’t out as trans until later, or there was somebody that I grew up with who I don’t know what happened to this person, but I don’t think they even came out as queer even though to me, I thought this person was transmasculine in middle school. But, I don’t know what happened to that… I don’t know where that person journeyed. But, when I last saw this person, they were identifying as a straight woman.
Paige:
It’s like, I see you, I see you. Come out.
Willy Wilkinson:
Right?
Paige:
Yeah. I’ve been thinking also about the stigma of medically transitioning and how it’s changed over the years, and what goes into the decision of whether or not to medically transition, and whether or not your validity as a trans person changes too if you transition or not? Also now, with the support that you’re able to have with the resources is so different I think.
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting the drama in the community, when really I think one of the key messages of the trans movement is be yourself, live authentically, right? But then, I think there are people who resist others being themselves. So, it used to be a lot of pressure to medically transition, and there was no word or real community around what we now know as a nonbinary experience. There was no visibility around that, and that was considered not trans enough. When I was identifying in that way, although we didn’t use the term nonbinary, but in essence that’s the way I was identifying. Now, I think there are many trans men who feel like, oh, it’s not cool to be more binary identified or identify as male, what’s cool is nonbinary. Then, there was a moment in between that where people were like, those genderqueer people are fucking me up.
It was really, those people are out there, and their presence means that other people will think that I identify that way. So, it’s kind of like, what, there is room for everybody. I think it’s really important that people figure out who they are and pursue the path that’s right for them. There are no rules. There are as many way to do this as there are trans and nonbinary, gender expansive folks. So, I don’t understand that. I feel like that’s a lot of noise, because if people really feel that medical transition is right for them, then the real question is can they access the procedures that they want to pursue. For so many years, trans people experience extreme discrimination in healthcare settings, denied a policy for being trans, denied transition related care, denied any service that was considered… such as sex specific services like trans men being denied gynecological care, transwomen being denied prostate screenings for instance, and denied coverage for any service that was related to being trans.
The health insurance company would say, “Well, too bad you have a liver issue, you are on hormones and that affected your liver, we can’t cover that,” or “Too bad you broke your arm, we can’t cover your broken arm because your hormones affected your bone health.” So, for so many years, trans exclusions have really inhibited people’s access to transition related care, certainly not covered by health insurance. It’s only been since 2013-14 that we’ve started to get health insurance coverage in not even half the states. So, there’s a huge discrepancy in terms of healthcare access. So, it’s really a question of, can people access the care that they want, and can they get that covered by health insurance. That’s a struggle, and there are certain procedures that continue to be a struggle to get coverage for. So, I just feel like, hey, the fact that folks have been able to get coverage for, not just top surgery but genital surgeries, I mean in the state of California, that’s huge.
I mean, and I personally have witnessed how that has been transformative for the mental health status of folks in the community. So, I really feel like we should be congratulating everybody on whatever path they choose. If folks are saying, “Oh, I figured out this is how I identify, I’m not interested in medical transition, I’m interested in social transition and this is who I am,” then hey, let’s celebrate that. It’s like, there’s no rules here. Folks should just do what’s right for them.
Paige:
Yes, oh my goodness.
Willy Wilkinson:
You know?
Paige:
Yes, yes. I feel like-
Rhiki:
So, to stay on this topic of the healthcare system, what are some things that you think COVID-19 has been able to make more visible as far as health disparities affecting trans people, and trans people of color?
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah. Well, first of all, I do want to say, when you asked me what was on my mind this week also, just Jacob Blake, Wisconsin, I mean just the horrible, horrible ongoing state-sanctioned violence against Black people. I am glad that there’s more visibility, there’s more people who are understanding this. It’s just an ongoing horror all that’s happening. And so COVID, well, thinking about Kamala Harris’ speech at the Democratic National Convention, a couple parts that I loved about that was when she said, “Let’s be clear, there’s no vaccine for racism, we got to do the work.” Then, she talked about how the virus has no eyes, but it sees how we treat each other. I think when you look at COVID and how it’s impacting Black and Brown communities, and you look at HIV/AIDS and how it impacted marginalized communities as well, and the lack of resources. Again, we’re seeing a pandemic impacting marginalized communities.
Then of course, the Trump administration, on June 12th, the anniversary of the Pulse massacre decided to announce I mean, something they had been working on for a while, stripping discrimination protections from the Affordable Care Act, section 1557 of the Affordable Care Act, which is about sex discrimination, which has been interpreted to include people who are discriminated against based on gender identity, basically stripping discrimination protections from healthcare settings during Pride Month, during a global pandemic, right? That was the Friday. The following Monday, the Supreme Court decision recognized that quote unquote sex discrimination does include folks who are discriminated against based on trans status. So, it’s been a really interesting thing to see how the Supreme Court decision has impacted other federal statutes that are based on sex discrimination, so that has made that something that potentially we won’t experience, or at least Judge [inaudible 00:37:37] has said, “Wait a minute, let’s look at this Supreme Court decision here.”
So, that whole thing of stripping discrimination protections from the Affordable Care Act, it’s just… There’s been so many attacks on trans people in housing, healthcare, education, the military, in the prison system, and immigration, for immigrants and so on. So, it’s just really there’s so many attacks on trans people, and I think when we look at how folks are impacted by COVID. I mean even trans lifeline that supports the mental health of trans folks, for and by trans folks, just in the first couple months of the pandemic, much higher incidents of suicidal ideation, workplace discrimination, domestic discriminated, substance use, prescription delays, postponed surgeries. Which, if you talk to mental health providers, they will tell you that has been significantly impactful. Although, some people are now getting transition related surgeries. I know a couple of folks who’ve just had transition related surgeries in August.
But, loss of insurance, discrimination in healthcare settings, just much, much incidents. When you look at LGBTQ communities, particularly trans communities, many folks worked in gig economies, many folks are working in industries that are much more negatively impacted with more exposure that people are more likely to experience a cut in work hours and income and not necessarily being able to access unemployment. According to data from the Human Rights Campaign, that people, LGBTQ folks more likely to feel that their financial situation is quote much worse than before the COVID pandemic, that folks are less likely to have insurance, and that folks are more likely to smoke and have chronic illnesses like asthma which can significantly increase complications from COVID infections.
Rhiki:
Yeah.
Willy Wilkinson:
But at the same time, what’s interesting in our communities is that LGBTQ communities have been more likely to actively learn about COVID and take precautionary steps, so maybe that’s because it’s not our first pandemic. But, I think we’re really seeing folks are at risk though, continue to be at risk because of economics, at risk of exposure, at risk in trying to make a buck, and at risk of loss of housing, loss of healthcare, and so many negative impacts. So, of course it’s devastating. It’s devastating on so many, and with the feds cutting unemployment checks significantly, it’s devastating.
Rhiki:
Yeah, it’s just a lot. I appreciate you saying how people are at risk for things that you can’t argue is a part of their DNA or their genetics or some time of immunodeficiency. They’re at risk for things that we can change and we can control, but we’re not. Yeah. So, I do have this one last impromptu question, so I hope you don’t mind me asking it. But, as a trans person of color, and who is also an organizer, what advice do you have for other organizers? And I’m thinking more specifically about the recent uprising and the movement for fighting against the killing of innocent Black people. But, in this movement, we see there’s a little tear or a little rift between how do we make the conversation go deeper, and it’s not just about Black males, but about Black females, and then about Black trans people. There seems to be some confusion about how to hold multiple things up and multiple identities up when organizing. So, what advice could you give to organizers about how to create a movement but also hold multiple things at one time simultaneously?
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah, what a great question. And I don’t know that I have all the answer, but I mean, come on. None of us are free until Black trans people are free. I think that we really need to be able to hold all of those identity… or recognize that all that intersectionality. What’s interesting is I’ve been a part of various API communities in support of Black lives. I’ve been really happy to see that work that folks are doing around really understanding the issues and supporting the issues and doing the work around raising awareness in our communities as one aspect of the work. I also think that there is an incredible need to support folks’ mental health right now. Part of that work in the API community or API trans community that I’ve been doing with APIENC has been in co-facilitating workshops on asking for help and setting boundaries as part of sustainability in movement organizing.
I think that’s really beautiful work that they’re doing and that they’re really reaching out to support folks’ mental health within the context of Black Lives Matter, and fighting against anti-Black violence, and also within the context of trans justice. So, I think we need to be strong and find that strength and resilience especially now so that we can continue that fight. So many people are recognizing that this century’s old state violence, it’s old and needs to stop, and it’s structural. It’s not just the bad apple theory or whatever, it’s structural and people really need to do that work to fight against those systems of oppression. So, I think people feel overwhelmed, and I think yes, the work, it’s huge. But, in order to do that work, we need to figure out, what is it that I can do and what do I need to do in order to be effective in that work.
So, I think that’s the question is not getting paralyzed by how overwhelming it is, but figure out what it is that you can do. So, I don’t know if that really answers your question because it’s a really big question, and I don’t know that I’m the best person to answer that question. But, there’s so much work that needs to be done and there’s so many ways that we can all engage. It might be in talking to people who might vote against people of color’s rights, it might be people in our families, in our communities, it may be donating funds if you can, it may be working in collaboration with different movements. Another piece of this is the Disability Justice Movement too, and I don’t want to leave that out. I think there’s been great work over the years around disability justice. When I was first experiencing disability in the 90s, it was very white, male, straight dominated.
There was no awareness around people of color in Berkeley. I mean, and Berkeley is the hub of the disability universe, and there was no awareness around these issues, which has really changed over time, and that recognition of intersectionality within disability justice movements, but also recognizing the wisdom of the Disability Justice movement and how we can access that wisdom now as we develop mutual aid networks and support elders and immunocompromised folks, folks who have sensitivities, these populations. I mean, there’s all of that, how can we really recognize these intersections of the movements, or even looking at the discriminatory care rationing around deprioritizing people with disabilities in healthcare settings and how Black and Brown folks are experiencing discrimination in healthcare settings yet more negatively impacted by COVID, all of that. We really need to be looking at all of these issues together and working toward systemic change. So, I think that question is, well what is it that we can all do? How can we all do that work? So, I think that happens in so many different ways.
Rhiki:
Yeah. Well, thank you for attempting to answer that question. It was a really big question, but I appreciate what you said because it can get overwhelming because there’s so many intersections and there are so many things. You want to include everybody, you want everybody to be visible, and that’s something hard to do. But, I think what you said about figuring out what you can do as an individual and where you fit into this work can help combat that overwhelming feeling, so I really appreciate that.
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it’s a good question. It’s a really good question.
Rhiki:
So, before we close out, are there any projects that you’re working on currently that you want to uplift in this moment?
Willy Wilkinson:
I mean, I’ll just share, my parents are in their 90s, and my mom who is 98… One of the projects I’m doing is working on the final stages of getting my mom’s first book to press. It’s a collection of short stories of Chinese legends, tales, superstitions, things that were passed down through oral history over centuries, stuff I grew up learning about. So, that’s a project I’m excited about. I’m also thinking about a children’s book, but it’s still in the idea stage at this point. I’m just continuing to do the work that I do, of providing training and consultation to various entities, folks who work in community health, broadly defined, educational, mental health, folks who work in medical, mental health, behavioral health settings as well as public health and other settings, and educational institutions, everything from preschool to university settings, and workplaces, folks who are trying to create trans affirming workplaces and so forth.
So, I really do love that work, and when the pandemic hit, I thought, oh, who’s going to want me to do training. I may have to reinvent myself. I may not be able to continue to be who I am. Then, I realized, oh people still have that need. For me, I’m always talking about racial justice within that context because when we talk about LGBTQ folks and trans folks, and we talk about the alarming statistics, well we’re talking about how Black and Brown folks are most negatively impacted. So, I feel like for me, that’s something we can do more of. Really doing organizational assessment around racism, around really looking about how we can create affirming services in whatever settings we’re in as well LGBTQ and trans affirming services. So, that’s work that I continue to do. Now, I’m doing this stuff on Zoom. It’s not the same as a live training, but it has really been interesting to engage with folks in those discussion around how people can create more affirming settings around all of those issues.
I’m looking at how can I do more in that area as well. So, I think that’s’ really what I’m continuing to do is doing that work with folks to create more affirming care and services, educational settings and so forth. I just hope that folks are inspired to continue this work, that these recent uprisings weren’t just a blip, and that people continue that work as we move forward. And really that folks who may have recognized these injustices anew are continuing that commitment to do that work around uplifting everyone who’s marginalized.
Paige:
I definitely always feel inspired when I talk to you or other people in APIENC. I think that for me has definitely been a political home to come back to and get resurged and energy for sure.
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah.
Paige:
Yeah.
Willy Wilkinson:
And that’s it, we got to uplift ourself so that we have the strength to do movement work. So, I think that’s a beautiful thing too, is finding those communities that support us, that see us, that give us strength and resilience, and that help us remember our ancestral wisdom, right? We do have that. And that we can take that strength in this particular moment and carry that forward, and continue to have hope even when there’s so many things that feel hopeless right now, to continue to have that hope and inspiration to carry on and celebrate your unique self and do the work that you can do to make systemic change happen.
Paige:
Such wise words.
Willy Wilkinson:
Thank you. Thank you so much. You ask good questions.
Paige:
Thank you again for coming on, Willy. So, you can check out Willy Wilkinson’s-
Willy Wilkinson:
My pleasure.
Paige:
Book, Born on the Edge of Race and Gender, and follow him at WillyWilkinson on Twitter. Is there anything else you want to plug in too?
Willy Wilkinson:
I’m not a big Tweeter though. [crosstalk 00:52:04] I have a Facebook author page though. I’m not super active on social media, but yeah.
Rhiki:
[crosstalk 00:52:15].
Willy Wilkinson:
Yeah, my book is out there, and if anybody wants a signed copy, you can certainly contact me through my website, I’d be happy to send folks a signed copy. Yeah, for sure, and I’m happy to be a resource for folks if they need to reach out. So, thank you so much for the opportunity, for the invitation to be interviewed by you all.
Rhiki:
Thank you for talking with us. It was a real pleasure. And if you enjoyed this conversation, remember that the conversation is not over. We will continue to keep bringing very intentional, very depth conversations to this platform. So, please check us out next time on the Radical Zone.
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